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Sunday Opens (9/7)
Saturday, September 6, 2008
September is a kind of second Spring for real estate listings.
If you don't get your listing out by early-to-mid-Summer, you hold back till after Labor Day. So we're starting to see more new stuff this round, at last. We also have the first Mrs. MBC pick in quite a while.
We're asking MBC readers who visit these homes to also report back. Tell us what you see, what you like, what you don't like, what you'd change if you owned a particular home, and so on. Use the comments here to discuss the homes we've highlighted.
Click here for the complete list of opens published in the Beach Reporter, or at any time use the link in the right-hand column under "Prop. Search Tools."
Also, we'll note that many listings that debuted last weekend are open again this weekend – see our summary of last week's offerings for more. (See "Weekend Opens (8/30-8/31).")
As always, click any highlighted address below for more pics & details via Redfin.
Hill Section
918 10th has been around since late April, and rarely, if ever, posted as open in the Beach Reporter. (They skipped the traditional public viewings and went for this snazzy, jazzy website instead.)
The early-90s home offers 5br/5ba, 4475 sq. ft. with a fully updated kitchen. The location, on a flat street east of Poinsettia, has more in common with the Tree Section's suburban vibe than the estate-home, ocean-view parts of the hills. The lot's large, at 9000 sq. ft., affording a pretty nice back yard.
This week's print ad in the BR makes a bold prediction:
The Hill is Selling! This incredible home is next to go!Oh, the dangers of predicting... Now priced at $2.999m ($-201k off start). Open Sun. 2-4pm.
Sand Section
Mrs. MBC finally has that tingly feeling again and she's ready to make a pick. It's 424 5th, a sweet vintage beach cottage on a flat South End walk street with enough indoor/outdoor living space for the whole family.The space is a pleasant surprise – 4br/3ba, a bit more than 1900 sq. ft. There's also a nicely appointed roof deck. Of the location, the listing language raves:
Centrally located, just steps to the beach, downtown and Robinson Elementary, this location has it all!!Well, sure this listing says that – the listing agents live nearby.
The start price is $2.399m, which will be interesting to watch.
Consider a fairly comparably sale from last year – 544 4th, about the same size and vintage (and also quite cute), which netted $1.6m in March 2007. Big location difference – 544 4th is not on a walkstreet, though that section of 4th, near Valley, gets very little traffic. OK, but that sale was in the heady days of last Spring's rally, and it was $800k less. There haven't been many old-timers offered in the area since. Open Sun. 1-4pm.
704 Highland presents the question: Did you know they were still flipping houses these days? If you recognize the address, yes, this home sold recently – in early June for $1.199m. At the time it was dated, crusty, prominently featuring peeling paint and a yuk interior. We were thinking this fixer would find an ambitious owner-user. But no – in came a flipper.
It's superclean and tidy now, 3 months later. Offered at $1.549m (+$349k/+29%) and open Sun. 2-4pm.
215 S. Valley hasn't been open much since it debuted in July. (Click here for more of our review from then.) It's very pricey for a 4br/3ba, 2500 sq. ft. home that needs all kinds of updating. The home is at the corner of Valley and Francisco (hello, school traffic), and borders the fields at Robinson School (huge back yard!). Still priced at $1.650m. Open Sun. 1-4pm.
Tree Section
Two listings catch our eyes this weekend because they've got the same owners. Neighboring 668 19th and 672 19th are both up on offer this week.
A while back, MBC focused on the smaller, less desirable of the two – 672 19th – which the owners of 668 19th had bought as their "guest house" 2 years ago. (See "Be Their Guest.")That experiment was short-lived.
Beginning in March 2008, the owners tried to profit nearly $250k on 672 19th, asking $1.789m.
It's now "new" 2 weeks after that listing canceled, now priced at $1.599m – just a tad above the $1.550m off-market purchase price from March 2006.
668 19th is a whole different story. Here is a large 8-year-old home with 5br/5ba, 3650 sq. ft. on a larger 5200 sq. ft. lot. (You'll note that the owners are into their bold paint colors in both houses.)The large size, plus the out-of-the-way, near-to-downtown location are pluses here, but there is this problem... The start price of $2.75m seems dramatically out of line with the current market. Both are open Sun. 1-4pm.
30 comments:
re 668 19th: if you overpay by $1 million, they'll throw in the ugly chairs that are featured in every photo.
Hi there MBC!
So my real estate friend recommends taking the pre-bubble sale price and adding 3-5% per year to come up with a decent offer range.
That logic results in an offer on "918 tenth" between 1.7 and 2.3 million. They are asking around 3m for the house. Would such an offer be considered low-balling even in today's down market?
Sorry that it's not one of your listed open houses MBCon, but I just noticed 3212 Blanche(on Redfin 14 days), and thought it an interesting listing for the Trees. Barely 5% gain in 3.5 years, looks like these people are honest about selling their house and trying to make this one move fast. IMHO I would imagine that this listing would put downward pressure on other new/newer Trees listings as it will be hard to justify a much higher offering price to compete with 3212, thoughts?
John man, 4400 sq feet at $300 to $400 replacement cost comes to $1,320,000 to $1,760,000. Deduct for 13 year old house (no clue as to how much that should be). Figure lot value at around $1 mill to $1.5 million (probably closer to $1.5). Who knows whether $2.3 is low balling? I'd say much lower than that definitely is. But unless someone put darts in words, give it a shot. Looks like a nice house.
Question - Whats the deal with this new listing @ 427 29th street.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Manhattan-Beach/427-19th-St-90266/home/8135720
Seems underpriced, no?
11:41-427 19th is a duplex...not the typical big family home most are in the market for...this attracts a smaller market and me thinks it's priced like everything else...too high...it'll sit.
Thought I'd jump in with some thoughts on 424 5th, the walk street house...it's super-cute and nicely done in a beach theme. One thing that might not work for everyone though: It has a flip-flop layout with the bedrooms all on the entry level and the common rooms up on top. The master bedroom is the room that juts out onto the front (walk-street facing) patio. Not necessarily a deal-killer, but for our family (with aging relatives who don't want to have to climb up stairs when they come over for dinner) it would be extremely inconvenient.
672 19th is horrible. 'Nuf said.
I saw 918 10th. The house is huge and the lot is really huge. The interior feels very 1980's. Most MB buyers will gut the kitchen and most baths(if not all). The kitchen is also a wide galley-style and the adjoing FR is sunken. So we are talking about a major renovation if you don't like a galley kitchen--not just a new-cabinets-and-countertops job.
There's wallpaper in some rooms, so that has to come off before you can even paint. The strangest thing is the doors in the dining room to the outside are REALLY short--not sure why, but the mouldings do line up with the windows--maybe a miscalculation somewhere?
When I saw this, I also looked at the MRS. MBC pick on 2nd that just sold. (Sorry-don't remember the number offhand, but it was the nicer of the two that just sold). For virtually the same price, you (would) have a more modern home with OCEAN views! To me it was a no brainer--and apparently to the market as well as that one sold and this one is still lingering.
The only real plus here, IMHO, is if you really want a big yard, this house has it.
Also, I heard a comment from their realtor who indicated that the owners felt it would not be possible to recreate a home this size for this price; meaning, "Don't bother low balling us." But that was over a month ago...maybe "the times, they are a-changin'?"
424 5th IS cute-as-pie, but is it's walk street location worth $800k more? And hasn't the market cooled a bit since March of '07?
Seems pricy to me--especially after Labor Day....
IMHO, 424 5th....at more than $1200/sq ft in today's market ?? It's a cute house but it's LESS than 2000 sq. ft with NO VIEW and in the middle of the block. I think it's a long timer who loves his/her house and don't realize today's market reality. I think it'll linger for awhile till the price comes down substantially to today's price.
4:54, I agree with your assessment on 918 10th. The only thing going for this house is its backyard. The size of the house is not a real plus (it's just average for the Hills' section). No view (real minus) and it's on the 'wrong side' of the hill. Isn't 312 S. Dianthus (lower price than 918 10th with Ocean View) a better buy? BTW, what's wrong with 312 S. Dianthus? Seems like a good price for the house and its location, no?
MBWatcher
Do you think the owners of 424 5th are serious at that price? I wonder what their situation is. Could they just be testing the market? They will never get that price.
Lot values on the south end walk streets are ~$2.0mm for 30x90s in mid-block locations. Look at the house on 6th street that just sold (the one with the "issue" that nobody would discuss). There are several other examples as well. 424 5th should sell around $2.2mm I would think - you have to place some value on the nice cottage they have there.
Re: 424 5th, this is a hard one to figure. 2:12, you're right about the lot value for the mid-walk-street lots, but when you pay "lot value" there's an inherent assumption that you're going to be building something on it that is bigger and better. It is worth paying lot value at $2m, plus another $400K, to end up with this beach cottage? Seems like that would be a tough one to swallow for many buyers. I know someone who might have been interested in that house - or the location, at least - but just thought the house was too small to manage. And it's not a teardown. I agree that it will be interesting to watch.
isn't the house on 6th sold sometime in June this year? the market has soften since then. There is another house on 333 3rd that is 400k less than 424 5th (it's quite a bigger house too). What gives?
408 6th: $2.050m, closed 6/12/08
333 3rd is an interesting challenge to 424 5th – 2750 sq. ft. compared to about 1925 on 5th, and $400k less. Of course 3rd is not a walkstreet but if you want the South End and are looking at spending about $2m, 3rd is competitive and 5th is priced like it deserves several premiums on top of each other.
Zillow shows a zestimate of $1.5m for 424 5th. I don't think zillow is a great tool for pricing but it is interesting that it is a million dollar difference.
I think Zillow is a fine tool for your typical suburbs throughout the nation, but it really fails for Manhattan Beach.
I don't think Zillow takes into account factors like proximity to the sand, ocean views, walk streets, and all the other things that price MB homes differently than most cities.
is the south sand area worth 600k~1M more than the north sand area? I am just baffled at the difference in prices: 3020 Alma($1.395) vs 333 3rd($1.999) st & 424 5th street($2.395). Is it the house, is it the elementary school, is it the lot? I'm a bit baffled. With about $600k in the pocket, you can build a nice custom home and send your kids to good private school :)
12:44 p.m.
It is clear that you know very little about Manhattan Beach. The South sand area is where all the USC grads live. It's like heaven on earth down there. But unless you are one of them, you won't fit in. They do not accept non USC grads. They make their lives misearable. Actully just by them being there does that.
12:51
yes, you are correct that I know little about MB (that's why I'm following this blog!), but I don't quite understand how your statements address my 'inquiring mind wants to know' about the big price diff between the north & south sand. Is it just the case of homeowners pricing the house 'incorrectly' or is so. sand really worth that much more than no. sand?
There's definitely a view that South Sand is superior. My view is that MB residents have underlying perceptions for this:
South sand is seen as more "quiet." Yes, it borders Hermosa (but the nice, northern part), while North Sand borders El Porto (yes, still MB, but the almost-in-Chevron's-oil-tanks part). Also, North MB's Rosecrans Ave is a main ingress from the I-405 Freeway. So the north part of town is (at least perceived) to get more "outsider" traffic. (Very bad in MB.) I can't tell you if it's true, but having rented in El Porto when I first moved there, I can confirm that the north end can be very traffic-y, especially in the summer; whether the south is less so, I don't know.
While IMHO, all the public elementary schools in MB are very comparable, most parents in each section of town are rabid that "theirs" is the best. Robinson School (the one for So. Sand) probably has a bit more cache for some reason--again, sorry I can't tell you why. So another local "plus" for South.
I think another reason that South Sand has more cache is that most people drive through the rather luxurious Hill section to get there. So it "feels' like South is the "better half" of town (vs. the Trees and North Sand).
Lastly, the walk streets in the South tend to be flatter, so they are easier to walk (and leave your toys about).
Save your words, grasshopper.
South End is quiet.
Good night.
Unless you surf. Then it's better to be in the north.
Shopping Around- Are you saying that the south end of Hermosa is not nice? You sound like a complete snob. Most people would give their right arm to live in any part of Hermosa.
I don't think shoppingaround sounds like a snob. The fact of the matter is that smaller lots in MB fetch more money that the bigger lots in HB. I love both MB and HB, but they are two different communities.
BTW, what's up with Robinson School? Everyone seems to have a HO for it.
Yes they are and HB is not only more affordable but also less snobby.
And soon to be quite a bit more broke than Manhattan Beach, thanks to Macpherson Oil, unless Ted Lieu can somehow come up with a solution that doesn't look like an ex post facto law.
900 block of 1st St: 2700 sq.ft. 4 bd/3.5 ba ocean view home on 80X125 (10,00 sq.ft) lot is being sold by Owners, price reduced from $4,000,000 to $3,750,000. The owners got an offer for $4,500,000 two years ago.
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