Pricing Poll: 1026 Duncan
Wednesday, December 3, 2008
MBC pricing polls have often focused on properties that were drastically overpriced and in need of major corrections.
But those weren't the only kinds of homes featured. In fact, the only 2 homes subject to a poll to have closed escrow this year actually sold at or near the asking prices from the time of the poll (e.g., no big correction necessary). The rest have fallen dramatically or quit the market.
We'll do a year-end wrap-up on the pricing polls soon, but let's first add one to the mix. As you'll see, this one's a little bit different.
This time around, we're focusing on 1026 Duncan, a new Hill Section listing. (Click highlighted address for more pics & details via Redfin.) It's intriguing for several reasons.
The newer, 5br/6ba, 4000 sq. ft. home is squeezed onto a lot that is surprisingly small for the Hills (4600 sq. ft.). It's pretty, but it's also just a few doors away from Sepulveda. And no views.
1026 Duncan was new in 2005, when it was purchased for $2.5m.
It's up now at $3.350m, a markup of $850k (+34%) over about 3 and a half years.
But median prices for SFRs in MB have not risen 34% over this period of time.
In fact, MBC's presentation of median price data for this period (see "How're Median Prices Doing?") shows a rise from $1.5m in March 2005, the same month 1026 Duncan was purchased, to $1.707m in Sept. 2008, a total rise of 14%. (Click to expand graphic.)
Duncan was obviously well above the median then, but it's reasonable to assume its appreciation rate was close to the area as a whole. Take it up the same 14% from March 2005, and the price would now be $2.85m, or $500k below the start price here.
You also need to consider recent sales and current options.
There are 3 recent sales in the Hills that might figure in:
- 916 9th (5br/5ba, 4550 sq. ft., on a lot that's 7250 sq. ft. – sold for $2.825m in June
- 953 9th (5br/4ba, 4100 sq. ft., on a 6000 sq. ft. lot) – got $2.3m in August
- 914 2nd (4br/4ba, 4300 sq. ft., on a large 8600 sq. ft. lot) – just closed for $2.92m in mid-September
In escrow now, last at $2.999m, is 755 11th, "The Georgian," a 5br/5ba, 5300 sq. ft. home with views on a large 9300 sq. ft. lot. It needs updating, but the location is quite good, and it's 30% larger than 1026 Duncan.
There are also 3 other active listings between $2.75m and $3.4m that are bigger and either comparably, or better, located:
- 918 10th (5br/5ba, 4475 sq. ft.) – $2.750m (began at $3.2m)
- 407 Larsson (6br/6ba, 5000 sq. ft.) – $3.150m
- 1042 1st (5br/5ba, 4800 sq. ft.) – $3.395m
At the same time it's offered for sale, Duncan is offered for rent at $15k/mo. So it could go either way.
Oh, and, buying or renting, you can have the furniture if you please.
So, in a premium area like the Hills, do fairly new, higher-end homes appreciate at a rate well above the city as a whole?
Please vote in the poll and give the reasons for your vote in the comments. We'll hold this vote open until Sunday night at 8pm. The home is not posted as open in the Beach Reporter, but we'll direct you to it this weekend if it will be open.
---------------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT UPDATE:
The original story, showing a clip from the listing, stated that 1026 Duncan is bank owned. However, the listing agent contacted MBC to apologize for an error made in entering the listing. It is not bank-owned, it is owned by the seller, who is not in default. We are assured that the listing information will be revised later today.
Our story has been revised to drop references to the property being Real Estate Owned. Some of the first comments (and votes) will refer to that information in the original story.
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144 comments:
I hate to say this, but this is a quality residence. It may get over asking.
I'm starting to think McHugh may be right. The market is bottoming and may start hitting its stride in spring. I'll probably be striking in the next month.
Good luck all! This blog is great!
My vote was the 2.5 - 2.7 range
1) REO
2) Larger lots and better location available elsewhere.
I have not seen the inside to gauge it's quality. I can not imagine it could be that much better than other hill section homes built in the last few years.
I think "new buyer guy" better get to bed. 1:48 am has him dillusional.
What's the matter MBWatcher, afraid to use the 'F' word ('foreclosure')? Looks like a nice home. Don't know if the asking rent price is fair for the area but it seems a bit high to me given the usual steep discounts of rent over mortgage.
Based on the premise that MB prices are retracing and that no substantial improvements were done to the place, I feel the sale price will be < $2.5M if it sells, or it rents. Could be higher or could lower though--a single case can go any which way.
IF this home sells, the price might be in a wide range. However, the price will only go down from here.
i love it. a new construction in the hills in foreclosure.
this is a warning sign to everyone about the health of the MB market. in a systemic credit collapse, bankruptcy/foreclosures start slowly and appear to be isolated cases...then the tidal wave hits.
i have high conviction that the crunch is going to hit MB hard. as this cycle has unfolded, my conviction has only grown. by the time this is over, high end homes in MB are going to get cut in half, just like every other asset class.
high end, MB real estate prices should ultimately reflect what an successful professional couple can afford to pay. and that, i guess is roughly $1.5m ($400k gross income x 3 = $1.2m + $300k down payment).
the fear we should all have is that we overshoot these levels. if that happens, the price declines could be horrific. many folks will lose all the wealth and savings they'd managed to accumulate over a lifetime.
putting all of ones net worth into an illiquid, fixed asset that is leveraged at 5 to 1 is an insanely stupid practice. i still can't get over the fact that this is how young americans are taught from birth to conduct their financial affairs.
Great points, Bond Investor. The example you give is dead on.
My wife and I are in that situation - both have good professional jobs - and we couldn't justify buying an MB house, even with the $400k we had in the bank from recently selling our last house (before the market cratered.)
If people can't get loans and can't afford these homes due to more realistic lending, the market has no where to go but down.
Let's face it. We all know that most people in MB couldn't actually afford the homes they're in if realistic lending rules were applied. I'd bet less than 5% of all MB homeowners make $400-$500k/yr yet the average house ran in the $2MM range.
Insanity. Glad the worlds coming back to normal so those of us who do make a good living can actually start living that way.
And by the way, New Buyer Guy, good luck grabbing that falling knife. Wait until 2010, prices still have 20-30% to the downside.
New Buyer Guy is a sleepless realtor trying to obfuscate the situation
Give it a rest BondInvestor- A $400k income could afford a $2M home. The PITI payment would be about 36% with 20% down at 6.5% interest rate. The more concerning thing is lenders are requiring 25-35% down, which to me, would be more problematic to come up with.
Gone right now are the days of cashing in stock options and large bonuses. I know my bonus last year was not even half of what it was in 2006, and this year is turning out to be worse. So, there, I agree that prices will come down more due to that fact. Not necessarily what a $400k comp can afford.
THat $400k comps 3-5 years ago, may be more like $250k. At least that's the case with our firm.
8:17- I wish I knew the answer to your question regarding the % of people making $400k. When we lived in MB, it sure seemed that everyone we ran into boasted of what they made, so I just assumed I was in the middle or low. That to me, would be the largest factor, influencing home prices, rather than median income to median prices. Look, there were plenty of people whose salary was low six figures and got stock compensation in any given year that was close to $200k+ in "windfall" money that was used for down payments on home from 2000-2005.
MISINFORMATION ALERT!
Once again, MBW slanders a local homeowner with misinformation. Okay, Cult losers and assorted miscreants who slavishly follow this blog, here's a newsflash:
1026 DUNCAN IS NOT A BANK-OWNED FORECLOSURE!
Yes, the listing states that it is but the agent (owner's wife) is new (no excuse, I know) and entered REO by mistake. This is not a foreclosure, preforeclosure or, to my knowledge, a short sale. A simple phone call would have clarified this but, no, your illustrious cult leader prefers to shoot first and ask questions later. Makes for a better story and panders to the loser psychology of his fan base.
Looks like it worked, MBW. All your cult losers immediately started salivating at the prospect of a high-end Hill section home taken over by the bank.
You need to correct this story and stop printing misinformation that harms homesellers on your pathetic blog!
By the way, the fact that the home is for rent and the listing agent, according to tax records, is clearly the owner's wife should have tipped you off that it's not bank-owned. Jeez, and people actually read this thing thinking they're getting objective, useful and well-thought out real estate info.
Ha ha ha, so she thought Real Estate Owned meant that the house was owned by a real estate agent?
Maybe. Who knows what the agent thought? Isn't it worse to compound the problem by libeling a home that a local family is trying to sell by falsely claiming it is a foreclosure when the listing on its face gives obvious clues that the agent made a mistake and when a simple phone call would have clarified the situation?
The anti-homeseller depths to which this blog sinks sometimes are absolutely unbelievable.
How is liable when, as you stated, Huggy, that the listing agent herself posted it as a REO/Foreclosure? If that were the case could she sue herself?
Thanks for the clarification John.
"Okay, Cult losers and assorted miscreants who slavishly follow this blog..."
That would be you.
We had a garbage in/garbage out problem with the listing, but the listing agent contacted me and the story is now fixed.
I originally found this intriguing based on the disparity from median price trends, plus the disconnect from other recent listings. So that's the basis for the pricing question and not the mistaken REO info.
If you're so inclined you can change your vote in the poll.
Huggy the Realturd® give MBC a break. This listing has been on the market 5 days and even today it showed foreclosure. It seems to have just been corrected (Ziprealty no longer shows that large red foreclosure label).
On the other hand, perhaps we should give the agent some credit. The home certainly has garnered a lot of attention being listed a REO. Certainly cheaper than an auction.
The fact that this home now appears not to be a REO will probably invalidate the poll as this probably factored into the expected sale price. But then again poll respondents can change their vote so maybe not.
Classic example of how poorly the Realtor "profession" is educated.
of course there is no way this house is bank owned...the bank would have actually priced this house within current comps and market condidions...it takes the expert knowledge of a professional realtor to add $850k from the original purchase price.
is there a rational justification for this asking price?
Sort of like the education level we see from blog hosts and their cult followers, wouldn't you say?
The mistake in the listing was readily apparent to some of us. In fact, I called the agent (gave her a fake name, of course - can't have the ol' Hugster being outed inadvertently) to tell her of the problem and how it was being reported on MBC; she immediately contacted MB Watcher. Result - problem solved.
No need to thank me.
how can a realtor made that kind of mistake??! (listing a property as bank owned when it's not). I just don't get it...it's such a BIG mistake and he/she didn't catch it before posting the ad ??! Isn't it like putting an ad to sell a 2008 BMW X5 but the car really is an Audi S4? This realtor just shot his own credibility to pieces....
Note to self. Never use that realtor.
While I agree with you most of the time Huggy, I can't forgive that agent, nor the seller for that matter. One look at the listing, and I would have hoped I could have caught that if I was a seller. I would call for a divorce, hahaha. Hopefully, saving 2.5% was worth it to the owner.
If this were a true media outlet, then I could see your point with MBC, but you're harassing him is not so unlike the COTC correcting typos on a blog. Good day.
Huggy - How the heck did you miss 8:17am's comment?
"Let's face it. We all know that most people in MB couldn't actually afford the homes they're in if realistic lending rules were applied. I'd bet less than 5% of all MB homeowners make $400-$500k/yr yet the average house ran in the $2MM range."
This was in response to bond investor (goes to show you, make up a fancy name here, and you get credibility for some reason...note to self, register as "Investor that calls the market correctly 100% of the time").
8:17am - What you don't understand is that the average house that SOLD, sold for that amount. It doesn't mean that everyone that owns a home that increased in value makes that. If you are assuming that 5% makes 400k+, that would equate to about 1200 people (using 2000 census numbers and only including adults up to 74 years of age).
Now the question is, how many homes have sold for $2mm or so?
8:17am, if you don't understand math, you aren't going to find a job that will support your living here in MB. Give it up.
10:35, I can't correct all of the cluelessness on this blog. I do have a life.
Besides, these types of comments like 8:17's emanate from the COTC, a bunch of bitter renters who don't have any realistic concept of home prices and home ownership, even as they continually try to claim that they are highly-paid professionals who are, or recently were, homeowners themselves (so transparent but they keep on trying).
And you're right. Just slap on a moniker like bondinvestor or MB Watcher and voila (or vuala, as the COTC spells it) - instant credibility. Wonder if I should change mine to "MBRE expert." COTC, what do you think?
"I do have a life"
Huggies lies have no end!
"I do have a life"
Huggies lies have no end!
It's "Huggy's"
;)
Huggy reminds me of the bad guy at the end of the movie GHOST, remember?
Dragged off of the face of the earth to oblivion, kicking and screaming.
Well at least now we know why MBW insists that he/she/it remains anonymous.
I think MBC is just afraid Huggy's house will be tp'd if his name comes out. I doubt these juveniles who spar with him every day would do much worse though.
Let's not give this agent a hard time-she's as credible as Huggy!
The comment didn't refer to Huggy but rather to MBW.
Do the owners of 1026 Duncan live on this planet? We are in a recession bordering on a depression and they think they are going to make a 34% profit on this house! Wow!!!!
Did anybody catch Bernake's address this morning, he stated that more than 50% of homeowners who are currently underwater, were NOT TRUTHFUL on their loan applications, with stated income being the biggest fraud, and that this number is rising. Wonder how many of these people live in Manhattan Beach?
2:37pm - Congratulations! You win the dumb post of the day award!
First off, since you don't know much about real estate. That is the ask price. It is not the sale price. You see, a buyer bids a price (assuming lower in slower markets...yet it can be higher than the ask in crazy markets). Then the seller adjusts the ask down. Then the buyer re-bids. It is an interesting process.
Second, your comment, assuming all of what you said is true, should be directed to the buyer at that price. A seller can ask what he/she wants. If there is no market, the price drops. If there is no need to sell, perhaps the prices doesn't drop.
This kind of reminds me of Mookie's post last (?) night. Who cares what people list their homes for? If no one can afford it, it won't sell. How does that impact you?
2:37pm. I take that back. I just read kid's post about wondering how many people that live in MB blah blah blah... His takes the cake. You've been vindicated. You're still an idiot, but you've been vindicated.
3:05PM
It's ok that you listed the property as REO and wayyyy over listed the price. Huggy will be here soon to defend you.
the kid asked at 3:02 -
"...more than 50% of homeowners who are currently underwater, were NOT TRUTHFUL on their loan applications, with stated income being the biggest fraud, and that this number is rising. Wonder how many of these people live in Manhattan Beach?"
Answer: That's the answer. More than 50% of MB homoaners who are underwater, used an Alt-A liars loan.
My question:
Should we help these gamblers out?
Well, I don't know about that RBLiarRacistDud. You have an expertise in lying so tell us what you think. But try to be truthful.
RBD,
NO!!!!!!!!
Sincerely,
The Moral and Ethical Majority of Americans.
Kid, henceforth you shall be known as Kidiot.
3:05 This is 2:37. Don't be an ass. You knew what I meant. You must be the lucky realtor of the delusional seller.
4:15 PM - your a funny guy
All I did was post what Bernake said, so I guess he is the idiot? Either way your angry because your underwater or just starting to sink....blub blub blub...
Sorry Kidiot. Regarding finance I'm floating like a cork. Let's see . . . if you put away $50 per week for 25 years . . . you might be able to buy in Lawndale. Keep picking up that trash.
I don't know if there is any way to know just who has what kind of loan in MB. You can sometimes find out the amount and if it's Conv. or Adj. but you don't know if it an alt-a or what.
RB Dude? Weren't you the guy that claimed to own a home free and clear not 3 months ago? Weren't you the guy that said you "don't rent from the bank"?
So you don't own a home? You weren't telling the truth? Let me guess. You owned a home a long time ago, so you know all about it.
Kid: Obviously, the question was stupid. Get over it.
This blog has clearly passed through Dante's Nine Circles of Hell if we've now sunk to the point where the liar, RB Dude, is pontificating about liars.
Dear readers, if you haven't yet figured it out and can't quite bring yourself to the obvious conclusion based on the comments on this thread, let me spell it out for you:
THIS IS AN ANTI-HOMEOWNER, ANTI-HOMESELLER, ANTI-REALTOR BLOG
It is NOT a source of objectivity regarding the Manhattan Beach real estate market. Rather, it's intended readership is the Cult of the Clueless, the local bitter renter contingent whose envy and sour grapes mentality leads to the sorts of anti-homeowner and anti-realtor libel seen above.
The Hugster is here to try and right this wrong, much as I did this morning by squelching the false reportage about 1026 Duncan being a foreclosure.
Please, no need to thank me, although any help from fellow realtors and MB homeowners is appreciated.
huggy, you are hilarious. best comment i have seen in years related to why we, as a nation, brainwash ourselves from a very young age into believing that a 5x levered illiquid investment is the way to prosperity. it is, in an environment of expanding credit, but its a disaster in a deleveraging environment, as the one we are in now.
5:18, how do you derive any of what you're saying from my comment? Oh, that's right, I forgot, you're clueless. Sorry, my bad.
Huggy-
The only one that committed any "slander" would be the listing agent. Its libel by the way if written, and I see you caught that in your followup post. While you were up in arms about this story, you unfortunately accused MBC of defamation, and the wrong form to top it off. No worries, MBC has attorneys and I am sure realizes the threats are nothing more than what anyone can hear from the loons on the countless court T.V. shows.
MBC has the right to rely on the posted data of an individual listing, just as buyers do, hence the terminology "buyer to verify" regarding questionable statements in the listing. Further, given the property was listed by the owner, one would think she would be in the best position to know the nature of her family's interest in the home. Lastly, the fact that this listing was on the market for five days and not one other realtor called to correct her mistake, leads one further to believe this could not simply be a typo (unless there is no honor amongst thieves, as the COTC have alleged).
I commend the owner for dabbling in the real estate market and preserving as much as of the sales price as possible for her family. The home is clean and the pictures are nice, putting aside the little REO snafu. Yes, the pricing is a little off, but at least the listing doesn't have all the question marks within the text, leading one to believe agents list properties through blackberries. I say you teach her the secret handshake and let her in Huggy. How say you?
In addition, Huggy dear, I suggest you go out for a little run on the chip path. Put on a little Rosalita from the Boss, and get out of the confines of your wood paneled library. There is a vibrant side to our little city which is being lost with the amount of time you spend on this blog. Give over the reigns to some of your other esteemed relators, as I see this is really getting to you.
Huggy, I am a renter and NOT bitter at all, i love my pad, been there for many years, but i am ready to take the next step in life and buy my first home, i could have done it 2-3 years ago, but opted NOT to take the advice of NAR and "buy now".
The rest of the RE market in California has declined dramatically and Manhattan has been holding up well until recently. I am of the position that MB prices will continue to fall, this is why i am holding off for now...there are many people on this blog in a similar position. The only BITTER people on this blog are people who are watching their home values drop more & more every day....i would be bitter too if I was one of them, but i am not....
Let's see, Kid imagines all MB homeowners as being under water and that gives him such a thrill that he accompanies his post with typed sound effects ("blub,blub, blub"). Right, no bitterness there. I guess it would just break your heart to learn that there are a few of us (like me and every single one of my neighbors, unles they've HELOC'd the hell out of their homes and I just don't know about it) who are not underwater by any stretch.
Meanwhile, 5:35's spirited defense of the indefensible - MBW posting that a home owned by a local family that is currently on the market is in foreclosure when a simple call would have revealed an innocent mistake in the listing data entry - proves once again the profound depth of the cluelessness of the COTC's brainwashed true believers. Incredibly, this COTC baboon has the gall to resurrect the already discredited "foreclosure" fiction (maybe it really is in foreclosure and the realtors are conspiring to keep that fact from us). What an unbelievable loon.
Yeah, great job in cultivating your cult, MBW. You really do the community a service with your highly credible reportage. Hey, at least the owners of 1026 Ducan didn't have to hire a surveyor to correct your mistake this time.
MBC has a new story every day almost, errors are inevitable. Especially when relying on realtors. The issue is how are they dealt with? They are always corrected quickly, aren't they?
Could the blog be more perfect? Sure. Could certain commenters be less bitter and repetitive? Yes.
Huggy
I don't know what decade you were borne, but it must have been fairly recent. Why can't you stick to relevant data to support your position? Attacking people with the typical "COTC" moniker is really tired and fairly juvenile. Could you try to grow a little? You know the real estate market is tanking. Every agent is looking for a deal. That is what you do. Be nice to those who will not smoke out of the hookah of the real estate professionals and try to get a grip.
Huggy had some real gems of either intellectual dishonesty or ignorance in one of his (many) posts yesterday that I just couldn't ignore:
..the point is that inventories approaching or exceeding that level citywide have been indicative of downward pressure on home prices. I think that point is moot now; prices are already down.
Hmm..prices are down already, so the question of inventory levels is moot? If inventory goes to 200 prices won't fall further? I know you didn't "say" that, but that's your point. And it's wrong. If inventory keeps going up, it will put downward pressure on prices.
I never said the feds would be successful; I merely said that IF government action was successful in stabilizing the economy, that would be good for home prices.
You're really going out on a limb there. Fine, I concede. If the Fed stabilizes the economy, that will be good for housing prices. Here's one — if Bill Gates decides to buy all of the inventory in MB, that will be good for housing prices. Add that one to your repertoire. It's true, nobody can argue with it, and if it happens, you can point to it and say how smart you are.
I am comparing the market for purchasing a home today versus last year or two years ago at this time. I am not comparing the market today with the market a year from today because I contend that no one can predict with certainty what the future holds. Get it?
I get it. You're saying that it's better to buy today than it was a year ago. Or two years ago. Or, put another way, it's better to buy AFTER prices go down than BEFORE they go down. Very, very insightful.
Thanks for the free tip. You just educated another COTC member, and I think I speak for all of us when I say we're grateful.
Mookie - put that in our financial handbook. Buy AFTER prices go down, not BEFORE they go down. We are such idiots!
You have my complete agreement with your last sentence. Glad to see we're on the same page.
Huggy-dear, I'm impressed that you have been able to spend so much time on this blog today. Did you not spend the day calling and writing the real estate/owner, Redfin, Ziprealty, catalist, all the MLS sources, etc. to blast them for perpetrating this slander upon that poor, innocent home?
Give it a rest.
Huggy/KOTC, you started on the first page and never progressed from there. Your profession is like a bad horror story and I'm not surprised you don't want to turn to the next page...
Guess what, KOTC? You're the one "cultivating the cult" as you say. Nothing so effective as being a complete jerk to get people to hate others in your "profession". I would hate you if I were a realtor in MB.
Hey Huggs, how about starting your own blog instead of criticizing MBCon? Unfortunately, you'd only have an audience of one, but it'd be fun to see how badly you would fail. Then again, that would be deja vu for you, I suppose.
Gee, where did I ever get the idea that this site is anti-realtor and anti-homeseller? I right an obvious wrong and the COTC go ballistic. "How dare you criticize our beloved and omniscient leader." Have you all signed over all your worldly possessions to MBW yet? And you male members of the COTC, have you made the ultimate Heaven's Gate-type sacrifice for your beloved leader? (ouchy-wa-wa!)
7:01, without revealing who I am, I periodically hear other realtors cheering my anonymous efforts. If someone like you hates realtors (so obvious from your reference to our "profession"), that deep-seated hatred existed long before the advent of Huggy. It was borne of the COTC's hysterically immature world-view that the reason they can't afford to buy a home here is because of a conspiracy by the realtors to drive up prices (and remember what I've said all along about conspiracy theories being the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt).
Huggy:
What do you expect? Read what MBW wrote on his website:
"MB Watcher is a 10-year local resident who worries that home prices have gotten just a bit out of hand. Besides producing this blog, your humble correspondent does not work in the real estate industry."
Let's be very clear on what this means. MBW moved here 10 years ago. He and his wife wanted to move to a new home; realized they couldn't afford it; and started a blog to commiserate with other "priced out" individuals and families. We know he owns, as he commented that he is indeed a homeowner (then again RBDude said the same thing). What homeowner would get concerned with growing equity (unless MBW was one of those idiots that used his equity as an ATM)? Let me guess, he is civic-minded...
So, in summary, MBW can't move to another home from his starter home, started a blog to talk about it, and on the way forgot that when he starts writing things that are factually incorrect, people get mad. He is the Chuck Philips of real estate. Who shot Tupac again?
Excellent post, 7:28. Cue the "7:28 is just Huggy posting anonymously" comments, for the one billionth time.
7:28 is just huggy posting as anonymous
either that or huggy is sitting in front of his computer hitting the refresh screen every 10 seconds.
either way it's sad
Huggy, I'm a realtor in Manhattan Beach and have been for the past sixteen years. As you may imagine, most of my friends are in the profession and I can assure you that we do not say positive things about you. You need to shut up and recognize that the market has a way of straightening itself out. Realtors are essential elements in buying a home and people such as you just give us a bad name.
Yes, Huggy you really have posted one billion comments. Do you have a real job, or are you just sitting around smoking your bong pipe and writing to erase the pain of being a loser?
I'm a realtor too, and visit this blog more for entertainment purposes than anything. However, I absolutely cringe when I read Huggy's comments as he stirs up so much animosity. I'm very concerned that he has tarnished the profession of all realtors and frankly wish he would just go away. Move to another city, just disappear.
Those "realtor" posts are hilarious. Yea, sure you are all realtors. Much like RBDude owns a home. How pathetic. You are all trying to be realtors now!
Love,
7:28pm (no, not huggy. not a realtor). Just a 10 year resident who worries that home prices have gotten just a bit out of hand. Oh wait. That's Chuck Philips' job.
PS, MBW has a beard.
I'm a realtor in HB and am sure glad that my prospective clients don't know anything about Huggy. It would be absolutely dreadful to have someone as negative and unlikeable as that posting on a popular and influential blog in our town. Stay in Manhattan Beach, Huggy!!!
P.S. 7.48 has an ass like a woman.
Ooops, looks like the COTC have adopted a new strategy - come on this blog pretending to be realtors. Suuuuuure you are. And you're going to claim that you like MBC's anti-realtor blog, particularly when he misrepresents facts about properties currently on the market or trashes realtors in some of his comments. Why not claim that you're both homeowners and you're hoping for the local real estate market to really crash? That seems to be a favorite fiction of the COTC.
Sorry, way too transparent, just another thinly-veiled attempt to make sure this blog has one and only one point of view. At least in that regard, 7:04 is a bit more honest with his/her comment.
But I have to say, I am gratified. If I come on this blog and don't get at least one plea from the COTC to MBW for my censorship or one plea for me to leave, I don't feel I've done a very effective job at counter-balancing the COTC's negativity and propaganda. So thank you all.
7:50pm - Classic, in a stupid, old person kind of way. Too obvious. Next time, tone it down. That was lame.
KOTC, suuuuuuuure you have lots of realtors singing your praises. You can say anything behind your keyboard, can't you?
Another realtor from Manhattan Beach here. The only way we can turn this market around is to rebuild the trust that used to exist between home sellers, home buyers and realtors. Unfortunately, Huggy comes across as being very unsuccessful and very untrustworthy. Give your fellow realtors a break Huggy, and go take a long vacation. You're an embarrassment to us all.
I'm a former realtor from MB (had to give it up due to poor sales). I blame Huggy and his ilk for damaging our reputation. No one trusts us anymore because of this guy's rancorous, yet strangely vapid posts.
7:48 - A beard?!?!?! Excuse me?
I think you've got the wrong guy.
"7:48 - A beard?!?!?! Excuse me?
I think you've got the wrong guy."
Uhhh. With all this bitterness about home prices, I think YOU'VE got the wrong guy.
I am a former MB resident that was relocated to the east coast a few years back. I LOVE MB.
Can't wait to move back. Check the real estate sites to see what is happening back in the old neighborhood. Stumbled on this site.
Enjoy the stories on new listings, etc. But, man, the blog part is brutal.
Not much in the way of analysis on the homes...pros/cons on location, builder, layout, etc. Instead, it is a bitch fest between those who feel prices are dropping further and those who say that the former are stupid, bitter renters.
Is EVERYONE 12 on this site??
What I can't understand is why people like Huggy even visit this site. If you are a realtor, homeowner and believe those on the other side (including the owner of the site) are just bitter renters and that will never have the capacity to own in MB, why visit the site???
These people, in your opinion, will never be a client, will never own a home here and will never have the ability to affect prices. So, by defintion, there is no need to worry about their opinions. And, regardless who is right and wrong in your debate, it won't matter bc they will never be able to buy. Your own arguments clearly articulate why you need not bother with the website.
To the site's owner, if you can filter these comments and put them in another section like the "Open Forum," it would make the whole site better. I like the premise of having the ability for people to comment on various homes, but as it stands now, you are basicaly becoming realtor.com with bitchy comments attached.
And, again, I love MB and long for the day I can move back. It's cold back here!!!
And, finally, I think MB will always garner a premium price over other cities in LA bc it is such a wonderfully unique town with much to offer.
7:18 Nice try, but your transparently manipulative tact has been attempted before. "Yes, I don't live here, but I love MB and Huggy should be banned..." Yes, we're all 12. Now do us a favor, go f yourself and stay on the east coast.
Why visit this site, 7:18? Precisely because the readership doesn't just consist of the COTC who regularly propagandize about the evils of realtors, the delusions of homesellers and the foolhardiness of owning a home; it also includes people who have been misled into thinking that this site provides an objective analysis of our current real estate market in Manhattan Beach (when, in reality, it presents only a distorted negative view of that market) and many who simply discover the site by accident.
The problem with this blog is illstrated by this very thread. The blog author, not having the full understanding of real estate that many seem to think he has, posted that 1026 Duncan was bank-owned (due, I grant you, to a mistake by the agent in entering the data), even though there were numerous clues in the listing to indicate that it was not REO (the fact that it was for sale or lease, tax records clearly showed it was not bank-owned and the agent was the owner's wife). Of course, this feeds into his cult following's belief that all Manhattan Beach homeowners are in trouble financially (they like to deride us as home-moaners, by the way) but it does a disservice to the family selling the home. So the ever-vigilant Hugster calls the agent to inform her of how her listing was being reported on this blog and she contacted MBC. Problem solved, but who knows how long it would have taken to correct the problem (and how many more chortling comments from the COTC about how everyone who is selling a home in Manhattan Beach is a distressed seller) had I not taken action to alert the agent.
You're right, of course, that it is unlikely any of the COTC will ever be homebuyers, certainly not in Manhattan Beach. Even when they claim they can afford here, like Mookie, their view of home ownership is so unbelievably negative that it is unlikely a purchase is in their future any time soon. So I am here just to offer a counterpoint to their extreme negativity and their distorted view of MB home-moaners for the non-COTC readers.
Btw, I agree with your statement "And, finally, I think MB will always garner a premium price over other cities in LA bc it is such a wonderfully unique town with much to offer." You do realize that sort of sentiment will get you in trouble with the COTC, don't you? Unless, of course, as the previous commenter noted (a bit crudely for my taste but whatever), you are one of the COTC just attempting another tactic to get Huggy censored. What, the faux "I'm a fellow realtor and I want Huggy banned" approach wasn't working for you?
I never said Huggy should be banned. Not once. I only questioned why he would bother with a site which, in his opinion, is full of people who will never buy a home and whose opinion on the real estate market will not affect it by his own definition. Just questioning why he bothers...seems pointless.
But thanks for proving my point on the dialog. "Go f myself." That's the way to win an argument and make your point. Nice work.
Thanks for the reply Huggy. That was a well thought out, reasoned response. Much appreciated vs the person who told me to "f" off. I also applaud you for your willingness to debate with people who only see the world through 1 point of view...you have more pateince than I do.
Regarding realtors...no, I am not one. And much like every profession, there are good ones and bad ones. Those who are informed, do their research and provide their clients with all the information make the home buying and selling process so much better. I had the pleasure of working with a group there who have been around since the 70's in MB and I would reccomend them to anyone. Top notch group.
Hey East Coaster, what are you still doing here? I thought I told you to go f yourself.
RB Dude skims Huggy's posts just long enough to
rip-off the best parts.
Wrong, RB Dude, you don't skim my comments. You, and the rest of the COTC, are addicted to them. Every cult needs a villain to bind them together in their cult-hood which is why you can't take your eyes off my bon mots. If I only flew a black helicopter, I'd be perfect for you and your cult cohorts.
Attention MB confidential newcomers and neophytes: Any anonymous post that agrees with huggy, especially anon posts within minutes of "huggy" posts, are examples of huggy playing with himself. This person is seriously ill.
8:09- Good one and original at that. Never heard that one before. Still laughing at you.
Ooops, my previous comment was in response to RB Dude and he just deleted his comment above. Oh, well, for those who missed it, the ever-hilarious RB Dude said he never reads my comments (and encouraged others not to read them either) because it's all just realtor blather. Amazing though that he often ends up responding to my comments in detail.
8:16, interesting tactic. I guess the phony "I'm a realtor and I want Huggy banned" wasn't working so now its "If you post in support of Huggy, you are Huggy". Not very original but I can see you've incorporated a timeline. Care to tell us the cut-off, after which time my supporters can post comments without being deemed Huggy?
Meanwhile, repeat after me "It's only a blog, it's only a blog, typed words on a computer screen don't bite, typed words on a computer screen don't bite."
Feel better?
"RB Dude? Weren't you the guy that claimed to own a home free and clear not 3 months ago? Weren't you the guy that said you "don't rent from the bank"?
So you don't own a home? You weren't telling the truth? Let me guess. You owned a home a long time ago, so you know all about it."
RBDude, you never responded to this. I wonder why...
Not any better, huffy, but we are laughing at you.
You come across as being absolutely suicidal.
8:50- Don't you know RBDude can only copy and paste. He even copied and pasted from another blog. He is such a genius.
huggy you need to accept the fact that the days of easy money for your profession are over.
while mb is a great coastal town in metro LA...its character and location won't keep housing prices from returning to fundamentals which means realtors will actually have to work to sell properties.
get ready for the 90's all over again.
Great 9:37, but as my comment on another thread pointed out, I bought my house prior to the '90s downturn, the market tanked and then came roaring back. I would have been extremely foresighted if I had bought 5 homes at that time instead of just one.
Since we're already in the midst of a downturn, we may be closer to the bottom than the top. And since no one, not even the COTC, can pick the bottom, now may be a good time to buy if you can qualify for a loan (low interest rates, lower home prices, higher inventory, a lack of competing buyers and motivated sellers).
Do you agree?
Huggy,
Is that what you tell your clients when they ask if prices are going up or down?
This of course assumes that you have clients ;)
Just curious!
"Do you agree?
Brrrrr...shiver...Ughh...
Feels like having a conversation with a smarmy salesman.
You don't need to be a "market timer" to see that prices are going down at an accelerating pace. Hello?
Huggy is really full of it. The market came “roaring” back? MBW already showed that it took 7years 9 months for the market to go from peak to return to peak in the 90s. We’re only about 18-months into the fall of this economy. So if you’re telling clients that it might roar back like it did in the 90s, you’re simply a liar. There is absolutely very little reason to buy right now. In fact, if you’re not independently wealthy, buying into this market is a big mistake. That’s what you should be telling your clients, but obviously you would never do that. That would require you to make moral decisions.
to 10:51,
OK smart guy, when will we be at the bottom? When is a good time to buy?
but I do admit, you're very insightful to comment that prices are going down at an accelerating pace!!?!!
Car to offer up evidence of that acceleration?
huggy a liar?
I can't Baaaaaahhhhlieve it.
The bottom? Who knows?...but not for quite awhile. My guess is Spring '10 or later. Lots of high dollar axes to fall...
Huggy
you talked your clients in to leveraging up massively to buy at the top of the market.
The people that chose to trust you two years ago are now deep underwater and some are heading for foreclosure.
you sodomized your clients, and they realize what you did to them.
Your clients know what you did to them. They may not get their revenge this year but they will eventually get back at you for what you did to them
Huggy said - "but as my comment on another thread pointed out, I bought my house prior to the '90s downturn, the market tanked and then came roaring back. I would have been extremely foresighted if I had bought 5 homes at that time instead of just one."
Now remember, the median price at the time in the early 90s was about 300k and huggy himself said during previous posts that his home is currently 4x the purchase price. Huggy, once again your quote confirms you're still living in that same house. I remember you tried to say in one of your posts that you sold it and moved to a different home. Try again peasant, but I keep catching you in that same lie. Outed again Huggy, outed again :)
Mookie, how many times have you been transferred? And now you've been fired. Sorry it's going that way for you, but you're the UAW of this blog, a big mouth with no brain and no future.
You are just absolutely obsessed with me, aren't you, mookster? (Damn, I misplaced my taser again).
Mookie, you only wish you had my home (or any home for that matter). Sure it's not brand new. Ever hear of remodeling? Oh, that's right, you can't do that without first asking permission ("Please, Mr. Landlord, can I get reimbursed if I put in a new toilet? Yours doesn't work anymore").
Must suck to be you ;-)
Huggy/KOTC, you are absolutely obsessed with this blog, aren't you? Do you have a day job, or do you just partake of your bong and type inane messages all day long? Actually, no question needed. You make so many posts, that you can't possibly have time for anything else. What a cretin!
5.33pm Huggy is so OUTED! He still lives in a sub-million dollar shack. So much for being a successful realtor; more like a dumbass peddler.
Mookie, bad day at Crap Rock? Mookie, Macy's is looking for a Santa, but they need a Santa that doesn't
say stupid things. Guess this won't work out for you.
6.39 the KOTC/Huggy is sooooooo transparent...
6:43/RB Dude Racist Coward.
7:44 a.m.
The only thing 12 is your IQ.
speaking of pricing polls, whatever happened to our friend at 815 2nd? still on the market? rented? where do they need to price that today to get a sale? i'd say $3.2M
6.47pm Cretin.
MBW As suspected, you're tracking the IP addresses and their posts. You just outed yourself.
7:12 p.m.
I think perhaps you spent a little to long on the bong today.
Huggy, it doesn't matter much what you say, you just can't deny the fact that if you have made 4x on your home since you bought it for 300k, that makes your home worth 1.2mm, and we know what that buys you in MB. No, there isn't anything wrong with living in a 1.2mm hovel that is 30+ years old, just don't try to come across as this wealthy RE mogel with all the answers. Really, it's ok. And by the way, how many homes are you buying right now, since it is such a great time to buy. Can't afford, it's ok,, it's ok. I guess the best defense is a good offense, so come back and attack me with some of your typical whit.
1.2mm... oh the wealth you must have. How's that Jetta you're driving, or is it a Camry? Dig yourself out of the hole and tell us about the record year and that big bank account and the number of rental properties you have and the vacation home in the Ozarks. But please, please, please elaborate on all the money you've spent on the remodel of your home in MB that brought the value up from 1.1mm to 1.2mm. Finally got rid of the orange shag and the aluminum siding? The best, Huggy, the best!
8:56 p.m.
Mookie, what a prick you are. Did your toilet backup again and your landlord won't fix it?
8.56pm
Probably the best post I've read on this blog. Absolutely love the way you put Huggy in his place. So much for the successful realtor persona that Huggy has tried so hard to adopt. His twisted words entrapped him in the end. That's what you deserve when you post a 100 banal and mind-numbing comments a day...
9:09 p.m.
Good post Mookie. Did you really think you could fool us? You are laughable.
9.33 (aka KOTC/Huggy).
I'm 9.09 and am not Mookie. Sorry to spoil your fun.
Mookie, am I getting under your skin? You just can't stop obsessing about me, can you. That's not healthy. Look, if it will help, I'll pay for that new toilet, okay? In fact, I'll make it a Toto Aquia II Dual Flush Toilet with the SoftClose seat. Nothing's too good for my little Mookster cause he's livin' large in his dilapidated rental.
And it's wit, not whit, Mookie, a word you probably hear quite often, at least combined with dim :-)
Once again, Huggy gets absolutely humiliated by Mookie, and his response?
"Mookie, I'm getting under your skin."
What a douche. But a douche that is the proud owner of a $1.2M shanty.
Huggy, you're not the elite, you're not significant. You are a realtor that lives in a shitty house whose meager income is just getting worse and worse.
But at least you are under Mookie's skin.
BOHICA Huggy. It's fun watching you get biyach slapped..."Thank you sir, may I have another" Pathetic Putz!
So Huggy, by your rational in the 1990s you should have bought 5 homes. How many homes to you plan to buy now? We are, according to you, in a "buyers" market. Why not take all the equity you claim to have and move on up?
While preparing to BOHICA,
his career is FUBAR.
Huggy, how do you deal with the Demons that come in the middle of the night?
Deep in the dark of night when you are alone in your bed, Do you ever listen to your heart beat and wonder when it will stop?
You are doomed. Your clients will want to get up close and personal with you soon.
Good Luck with that.
8.26
Don't know about you Timmy, but I'd like to see Huggy move on up AND move on out (of MB, that is).
Sell your shanty KOTC, before it drops to sub-$1MM then go back to your former job of selling used cars. Loser.
KOTC hasn't posted for at least 5 minutes. Very unlike him; we must be getting under his skin.
Maybe KOTC/Huggy is going to hand out his dog-eared business cards to the lines of people visiting the Sandpipers homes today? He's probably taking a shower this morning, might even shave too. It's been a while since he met any prospective clients, he can barely remember what to do, what to say...
Mookie -
I also liked the 8:56 post. Just one problem though. Huggy's shack probably isn't worth $1.2M anymore (perhaps only in Huggy's delusional mind). The sub $1.5M segment of MB is falling faster than the rest. Huggy better cash out now before it's worth less than $1M.
while the COTC are busy lambasting Huggy, homes continue to be sold, buyers continue to buy homes.
What could possibly be wrong with these people?
Why are they buying?
Are they insane? Have they lost their minds?
How many homes have sold in MB west of Sepulveda this year?
Are all those buyers clueless?
Make your own decisions folks but plenty of buyers are following Huggy's advice.
9:43, I'm taking odds on how quickly one of the cult losers comes on here and accuses you of being me posting anonymously. I'm laying odds that I may not even be able to finish typing this comment before one of the COTC comes out from under his/her bed and crawls over to the keyboard to type this predictable comeback. Guess I'd better type fast.
Maybe 9:43 should look at Kate Thomas's market update, and Blakes update as well.
Things might be moving, but they are moving slowly and DOWN.
but houses are selling and people are buying.
Always have and always will...
It's just a matter of price.
And one buyer's deal is another buyer's impossibility...
and I thought the rationale that Huggy stated was reasonable.
If you can afford it, if you plan on owning for the long-term and you can find the right house you buy it because prices have dropped and sellers are negotiating and interest rates are at still-historically low levels.
That's how I bought and sold 3 houses. I didn't market time it. I bought when I had the need (demand) and found the best house I could afford at the time (supply). The interest rate was what it was. In fact, in the early 80's it was in the teens! That's right, 13% or MORE!
Everybody can talk the woulda, coulda, shoulda talk. Did I miss out on a better house? Maybe. Could I have gotten a better deal? Who knows?
All I know is that I own a pretty nice home nearly free and clear in MB west of Sepulveda by in retrospect following Huggy's advice. I don't thank him but I don't revile him either. He spelled out a logical rationale that works.
Instead of blasting him, why don't you map out your home buying strategy? I dare you.
My home buying strategy:
Wait until housing bottoms. Unfortunately this is probably still a year or two away.
Buy house primarily with cash from the equity in selling my previous house.
How is that?
How will you know when the bottom hits?
I tend to think that strategy works at any time because of the relative price of the home you sell vs the home you buy.
They will both go up and down together.
A comment I've heard lately about the asking prices that sellers choose is, "They must not want to sell very badly at that asking price".
and I say exactly. Who knows what really motivates a seller in this or any market.
Gotta find the ones that REALLY want or need to sell rather than the ones who "will sell if they can get their price".
That's a good one 11:45, never heard that one before.
The housing market moves slowly. It will bottom for a while before beginning its ascent again. You can tell when it begins to ascend again because volume will start picking up again.
The flip side of that is that volume is still declining, so we are not likely at the bottom.
Huggy gets hit with tough questions from Timmy, RBD and the "COTC" and disappears for a while then posts an obvious anonymous post and argues with himself.
Weak!
1:46/Huggy,
Quit posting anonymously as anonymous. You aren't fooling anyone by arguing with yourself.
But Huggy, 9:43 and 10:57 are you as an anonymous. A strategy you deploy often and we all know it. Trying in desperation to get people to buy homes are you?
Nice try, particularly the "I'm taking odds" and "I dare you" routines. This is also something you do often to mask your previous anonymous authorship and to make it seem like more than one person shares your view. Try being a little more original with your outright fabrications. This gig has been up for sometime.
Now, I'll taking odds that we will hear from Huggy denying that he is lying about not being 9:43.
Duplicity in times of desperation amongst some local realtors appears to be hitting new lows. Huggy makes for the loudest posterchild of this desperation.
10:32 AM points out an interesting contrast. Kay Thomas vs Huggy.
Kay is well known local realtor. Huggy represents that he's a realtor. Kay blogs under her own name. Huggy, like many on this blog including myself, hides behind the veil of anonymity.
Kay's December 4th market observation acknowledges that the market is currently slow. She also notes that most jumbo's underwritten in MB in November / December are requiring relatively high down payments (ie at elast 30%, some 50%). In short, she notes that loans are hard to come by leading to lower prices and higher inventory.
Huggy continues to spout BS about TARP money making its way into jumbo mortgages, about the market pricing declining only slighty, and he refuses to answer the questions posed about high inventory leading to lower future prices. Instead, he touts a Countrywide email marketing low teaser rates as evidence of relief in the mortgage market (yes, but only for those with millions in hard assets and perfect FICO scores).
I know that Kay is a realtor (I've met her), but I'm beginning to wonder about Huggy. Could it be that Mr. "Legend in his own mind" is really just a realtor's admin who happens to have access to MLS data? His numerous slip ups and general ignorance of even basic economics leave this observer wondering.
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